On our walk, Elka and I saw a person standing in the middle of the sidewalk up the block from us, talking to another person. There was a chihuahua on a retractable leash, that squared off and stared as we approached. Person 2 went back to their house (and I noticed they were holding a small dog as well). Person 1 (with chihuahua on retractable leash) turned and saw us. Her dog exploded in lunging, snarling, and barking, staring at Elka, eyes hard, ears forward. Elka looked at the dog, and looked at me. I gave her a treat. Person 1 crossed the street with her dog, still lunging and snarling, for which I am grateful. However, she did not lock the retractable leash, so she ended up on the sidewalk across the street from us, with her dog barking and snarling
in the middle of the street. Elka looked at the dog, and looked at me. I gave her a treat. The woman didn't call her dog to her, but said in kind of a breezy voice "oh, now, come on, don't do that." Elka looked at the dog, and looked at me. I gave her a treat.
If our roles had been reversed, I don't doubt that the woman would have been quite upset with me. If my Doberman acted like that, barking and snarling and lunging, people would call the police. People would yell at me, and feel justified in their suspicion or hatred of Dobermans. I don't hate chihuahuas; I just hate that we encounter
so many small dogs who don't appear trained in any way, and whose owners, purposefully or no, encourage these horrible behaviors.
Size should not matter in dog behavior. Dogs should be polite, and trained, and managed. Dog owners should be conscientious. I don't care how big your dog is; if you're on the sidewalk or at the park, and your dog poops, pick it up and put it in the garbage. Don't bag it and throw the bag into the woods. Don't just leave it there. Take responsibility. These kind of behaviors make it so hard for dog owners to get allowances in towns. There are no off leash areas in my town, and few businesses that allow dogs.
Preach it! This makes me SO upset too. I have such a negative bias against small dogs, because of this exact same scenario, played out over and over and over again. It is unacceptable.
ReplyDeleteI was really heartened, however, that we have a shih-tzu in our training class. It's really encouraging to see an owner of a toy breed take obedience seriously! It's unfortunate that it's so rare.
I guess I've become such a nerd on the topic of dogs in general, and so hooked on the joy of Elka getting something right that I've taught her, that I don't get why other owners don't want to see that. Or maybe they don't know. I wish more people knew.
DeleteThunder has actually been attacked by small dogs when we have been out walking. The owners always act like...oh I had no idea. No idea their dog would charge across a street at a big dog. These small dogs are just lucky that Thunder has such an even temperament.
ReplyDeleteYes, those dogs are lucky that Thunder is stable!
DeleteWe've had off-leash little dogs charge at us, on the street and at the park, and I've been able to trust Elka to sit or at least stay behind me, and I get in between. Maybe it's weird, but I'd rather get bitten than her. I think it would have more of a legal impact that way. That, and I don't want her to bite a dog in reprisal, and then get blamed for the whole thing because clearly she was the instigator.
My first dog was attacked by a vicious chihuahua. Not joking when I say vicious, because this dog snarled and lunged at anything and could actually slip its harness. I once attended a training class (I was forced) where the trainer would giggle every time the two pocket dogs would start snapping and lunging for each other. Irresponsible small dog owners frost me like no other--especially when they act terribly frightened of my well behaved Big Black Dogs.
ReplyDeleteGood for you and Elka staying cool!! And great rant :)
The trainer would giggle? Oh how wonderfully amazing /sarcasm.
DeleteIt's really something that I've tried to work with Elka on. I don't want her flipping out around dogs, lunging, going in to the road, etc. I want her to be calm at the very least.
As the owner of three small dogs, I couldn't agree with you more. This is why Poodles and Chihuahuas have such bad reputations. Many owners even encourage this "cute" little behavior. I really feel sorry for the dogs, they could easily become good little citizens with just a little training.
ReplyDeleteI just don't understand how it could be considered cute. I mean, two dogs validly playing together, and doing bitey face, that's cute. A dog snarling and terrified on the sidewalk and in the street? Not cute in any way, no matter the size or breed.
DeleteI'm with you on those small dogs that are out of control. My attitude towards them has changed somewhat though because I have seen a few well-behaved little dogs. At one of the parks I take B to, there is a gentleman who has two small dogs, both on retractable leashes. Whenever he sees another dog walking, he tells them "heel" and they immediately are at his side. They do not show any aggression at all and are happy to comply with their owner's command. You are right - size should not matter. There is no excuse for a small dog to have such poor manners. They are still dogs and should be treated as such - not as fashion accessories and just because they can't pull your arm out of its socket, doesn't mean they should not be trained well on a leash.
ReplyDeleteMy neighbor's little dogs that they allow to roam the neighborhood freely have more than once ran out after me when I have been outside and have grabbed hold of my pant leg and tugged. If I didn't have long pants on the times that it has happened, I'm sure that blood would have been drawn. My neighbors never even apologize.
Such a double standard - if a pittie or a doberman or rottweiler did something like that - the authorities would come down hard. But because they are little - people laugh it off and think it's ok.
Sorry, guess I had a rant too. But good for Elka - you have done an excellent job with her! She responded appropriately and was rewarded. Yay Elka and yay you!
No need to apologize....my rant is your rant!
DeleteThat's the other thing that gets me...I've only had an owner genuinely apologize to me ONCE in an instance like this.
Oh Elka is so good and we agree re the little yappy ones. Don't worry at least you have a lovely well behaved dog ...... pity others don't.
ReplyDeleteBest wishes Molly
I was so very proud of her! I do work with her, and try to keep track of how she's feeling and where her threshold is. I wish that more owners would.
DeleteSomeone told me once that, as a dog trainer, I need to love all dogs, including the ones I find terribly annoying, most notably, the small ones. I realized then that it's not the dogs I dislike, it's the owners. Train your dogs, call a trainer, either way, you have a dog, take responsibility for the terror on a leash called Princess.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the poop-slinging-in-the-woods drives me >>insane.<< At Sandy River, you walk up a trail and find piles of poop and even filled bags hanging from trees. Are you kidding? Walk another .5 mile and there's a trash can. Seriously, people?!
Good job, Elka AND OWNER. :)
I'm happy to say that it is the owners, not the dogs, that I have the problem with. I've known several small dogs (including a Chihuahua who was trained to howl like a wolf) and liked them just find. Really, I just crave canine contact. Those owners, though.....permissive, poop slinging owners. Ugh.
DeleteYou need to rant more. Do you see me nodding my head? There's a reason why my blog is called littledogsonlongleashes.
ReplyDeleteHah, you don't want to tell me that! I can be so very ranty once I get that hair crosswise.
DeleteI like Elka's response to the chihuahua..."Elka looked at the dog, and looked at me. I gave her a treat" Lucky for me I haven't noticed people throwing poop bags in the woods. There are no woods around here, but I did have a lady not pickup after her dog right in front of my house! So annoying!
ReplyDeleteYes, I was very very happy with her looking at the dog and looking away. Sometimes she like, laser stares at dogs and then is surprised when they bark at her!
DeleteGlad Elka is doing so well, it's so great when you can see the results of all your training!
DeleteThese are the kind of people who give small dog owners a bad name. Which I sadly see in a lot of the comments :( It is NOT the dog's fault. Bad owners=bad dogs.
ReplyDeleteI can't tell you how many times I've gotten rude comments while out with Nola. Sneers and questions like "is it sick?" simply because she's behaving. She may not enjoy being pet by strangers (she tolerates it fine, but isn't a dog who actively seeks attention from people outside the family), but she behaves and I have her in control. It's actually in the Dachshund breed standard that the dog is to be aloof with strangers but loyal to the family.
I don't think it's fair to put all small dog owners in the same light (you didn't, but you get what I'm sayinG). I've met a LOT of aggressive pits/dobermans/GSDs/Rottweilers, but I've also met some I just wanted to cuddle. I've also met some demon Doxies, but there are small, well behaved dogs, like mine.
Nola's Mom
Yes, I very much don't blame the dog! And you do know that my overall philosophy is bad owners make bad dogs (there are exceptions, obviously).
DeleteI kind of get irritated when people think that dogs should be totally social to total strangers. There are times that Elka won't let people pet her; she just doesn't wanna. And I say "okay, we're done" and that's that. Nobody's asked me yet if she's sick, though, that's a new level of coarse.
Maggie and Duke are still shy around strangers, and it seems like people get offended when the dogs won't come over to them. Really? They wouldn't like a total stranger running up and groping them, or maybe they would? Eeewww...
DeleteIt seems like there are laws about that!
DeleteUgh. I've had experiences like these too, and you are so right. If one of my larger dogs (85 pound Leah for example) acted like that, people would turn her in for being dangerous.
ReplyDeleteWonderful how Elka responded to the litter bugger though! Nice job!
Any dog can be dangerous. Perhaps for different reasons, but I think that little dogs have every reason, and right, to be trained.
DeleteI was very proud of Elka!
I think, in all honesty, that small breeds also suffer from bad-breeding, in terms of both puppy mills and less serious temperament testing from breeders. They're also often obese, which leads to joint problems and chronic pain, which leads to crankiness. And of course the training doesn't help. In the roughly 30 dogs we've seen in various obedience and socialization classes, there have only been three small-breed dogs.
ReplyDeleteI've actually been thinking about this a good bit lately. I have a 35 pound dog who gets away with a lot because he's cute, and I can physically control him. Last week he flipped his lid on someone who startled him (a serious behavior problem that has crept up on us, and this was my reminder to Take.It.Seriously), and even at the time all I could think was "thank goodness he isn't the kind of dog people are afraid of." He's a rescue, and the kind of genetically fearful product of back-yard breeding that I think generates a lot of dog behavior problems.
Yes, bad breeding can make a large impact on temperament, in addition to the health problems and lack of socialization. Granted, socialization is the mistake that I made with Elka; she doesn't know other dogs, which is a big reason for our "look at dog, choose to look away, get a treat".
DeleteI think cuteness really does help in the public eye. Granted, I think that Elka is adorable, but a lot of people look at her and see Bloodthirsty Killer. If necessary, at 71 pounds, I can pick her up and remove her from a situation (which I have at least once, when she was staring at a dog that decided to flip it's top and the leash holder didn't control), but that just makes her and thus Dobermans, bad as well.
Good girl Elka. This is a major peeve of mine too. Kyuss isn't perfect, but if he behaved half as bad as most small dogs we encounter, I'm sure animal control would be knocking on my door.
ReplyDeleteEncountering double standards isn't new to me, but I guess the injustice of it just makes me feel protective of her; she doesn't know how people think of her. She just knows that she likes people, and that she doesn't understand dogs.
DeleteYep, I've seen this forever -- have shared my life with Dobes since I was a kid (30+ yrs now). Current Dobe is a rescue who came with a history of neglect and bad habits so am working on reactivity with him. Part of that involves walks with another friend and her reactive pit bull (we four are all friends, and the dogs seem to gain confidence from each other and are not reactive when they're together). On our first group walk there was no barking/whining/spinning/etc., just happy walking. A pick-up truck drove by slowly with two BCs in back; they barked frantically, the driver waved apologetically and the 'killer' pit bull and Dobe just looked on curiously. Treat! treat! treat! Good boys!
ReplyDeleteHow nice that your current Dobe has a pit buddy, and that they can be reassurance buddies! It's really neat to see the partnerships that some dogs are able to form with one another.
DeleteAt least the driver with the BCs seemed apologetic...apology doesn't seem to happen as frequently as it ought to.
Oscar is a small dog and was attacked by another small dog in our neighborhood...which has a leash law that the owner chooses to ignore. Bad owners make us crazed, no matter what size the dog. If an owner knows their dog is not well socialized then they should avoid walking it (or letting it run wild in the streets) where it can meet up with other dogs, or worse children.
ReplyDeleteOz's mom
Oh, and good work on Elka's training. Dobies get a bad rap, like other big breeds, and it is so uncalled for.
DeleteI'm sorry that Oz was attacked...that's no good :(
DeleteNo matter the dog, it is the owner's responsibility to keep him or her safe, and those around them.
Unfortunately, Kaiser has been often discriminated for being a Doberman...
ReplyDeleteSmall dogs sometimes are big problems... Once, a Yorkshire almost bit Kaiser. We were at a park, Kaiser was sitting next to me on a leash, the Yorkie was loose, and came to us full of bad intentions. The hysterical owner of the Yorkie, argued with me. She said that my dog was a danger, and that I should be ashamed for having a dog of this breed ... Sad people ...
Enjoy your weekend!
Kaiser and Farrusquinho
The Yorkie almost bit Kaiser, and Kaiser got blamed? That's awesome. So awesome /sarcasm
Deletewow everyone's mentioning/encountering small dogs with no training this week! Go Elka :)
ReplyDeleteI know, I've seen it too! It's a tremendous shame. I can't demand perfection from Elka, so I won't from other owners, but I'd really like it if they seemed like they were trying.
DeleteOh, absolutely. I have pit bulls. You better believe that I understand. I especially love when people's loose dogs make a beeline for us with the owner standing there saying "that dog's going to teach you a lesson!!"
ReplyDeleteSigh.
Good girl, Elka.
I just can't understand that at all. You think it's funny for your dog to be afraid? You think it's funny for dogs to fight? You think it's funny for owners to call the police on you?
DeleteI was just curious where did you buy her harness? :)
ReplyDeleteHer harness is the EzyDog Chest Plate Harness, which you can get on the EzyDog site: http://www.ezydog.com/ and also on Amazon.
DeleteAwesome ty jen :)
DeleteI have encountered aggressive untrained chihuahuas and aggressive untrained rottweilers. I get the double standard isn't fair when they're all dogs, but I'll take the untrained chis over the untrained rotties any day.
ReplyDeleteIt is certainly true that a rottie could do far more damage to a dog or a person. My point is more, why get a dog if you won't train him or her? What does having an unruly and erratic dog do to fulfill a person?
DeleteI get how it's obnoxious to deal with these dogs. But I don't think these "unruly and erratic dog"s don't fulfill their people, you know?
DeleteThat's fair. Really, I'm only seeing them at their "worst", outside and uncontrolled, where it's potentially dangerous and very certainly a pain in my butt. When they're hanging out inside, or maybe out back where it's fenced, they're probably adorable. Different situations make different dogs. I'm imposing my values and preferences on what I see (though really, it's a fairly natural human thing to do), though I don't know those owners' values and preferences.
Delete"Different situations make different dogs"
DeleteI don't think it's situations, but breeding. a 60 lb protection dog is different from an 6lb companion dog. I don't see the point in comparing the two, and I don't understand the sentiment that a chi should compare to a doberman and a doberman should compare to a chi.
but congratulations, that every time Elka looked at you with her eyes another dog was going batshit crazy. You are the superior trainer and therefore must have a better relationship with your dog.
Delete"I don't think it's situations, but breeding. a 60 lb protection dog is different from an 6lb companion dog. I don't see the point in comparing the two, and I don't understand the sentiment that a chi should compare to a doberman and a doberman should compare to a chi."
DeleteMy point was not to compare a Doberman to a chi directly. It goes without saying that a Doberman and a chi aren't going to have the same considerations while breeding. It's not unreasonable to expect ANY dog to not go batshit when the owner suggests otherwise, however.
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Delete"If our roles had been reversed... If my Doberman acted like that... Size should not matter"
DeleteHave you been "attacked" by both breeds? In my experience, one will ruin your day while the other can just be kicked away. I don't get holding a chihuahua to the standards of a doberman and I think it is nuts that I am reading a blog lamenting the imbalance.
I don't feel it's nuts to have a baseline expectation of dog behavior. Should a dog be barking, lunging, and snarling at the end of his or her leash? No. Should a dog be permitted to run in the road, where he or she might be hit by a car? No.
DeleteWith the size differentiation that you're pointing out, it ought to in fact be easier to, as owner, control the chihuahua. If one is so inclined.
You hit on one of my biggest pet peeves - little dogs who are not trained. I once had a client tell me that her little dog just couldn't be trained. Imagine her surprise when her dog suddenly learned sit, down, come and stay.
ReplyDeleteSounds like you really showed her!
DeleteCouldn't be trained? I wonder if just the owner didn't know how?
DeleteOh, you are preaching to the choir here! It drives me INSANE that people think small dogs need no training or manners. What is cute about a dog acting like Cujo, regardless of size? I saw someone get very upset about something written on another blog about small dogs and how people hold small dogs to a higher standard. What? Has there ever been a BSL against a small dog breed? I think not.
ReplyDeletePeople hold small dogs to a higher standard? How about holding all dogs to the same standard? That's what I'd like to see.
DeletePeople mistakenly think small dogs have personalities that make them annoying. What's actually happening is that some people don't bother training them because they can pull them off the street or pick them up if they wish. That's not an option with a big dog.
ReplyDeleteBig dog people aren't always responsible either. But, as you mentioned, authorities will step in quickly if a large dog is out of control.
Unfortunately, whether big or small, it's the dog who suffers when their person isn't responsible.
The small dogs that I've known have all been pretty cool (pugs, a chihuahua, shelties), but those owners also did at least baseline training with them. Most dogs don't just know what people want, we have to teach them.
DeleteSigh, I have a 6lb long haired chihuahua, he loves other dogs (he's one now and the hardest thing I had to do was teach him to stick with me rather than go and greet every dog he sees). His breeder did a great job and then I socialised the hell out of him (nothing phases him now), took him to puppy class and have been teaching him stuff ever since.
ReplyDeleteChis have this reputation for being stupid/stubborn, untrainable egotistical monsters. Ted is so far from this that people often comment how he's nothing like a chi. As far as I am concerned all I've ever done is treat him like a dog, he walks 2 hours a day, knows loads of commands, is raw fed, the only difference to a big dog is he needs a bit more protection because of his size.
It the dogs themselves I feel sorry for. All that barking and posturing and fighting is almost always fear based which means the poor little mites but be scared whitless whenever they're out.
Yes, a lot of what I see looks to me to be fear based, and I do feel very bad for those dogs. I confess, I don't typically take the time to try and talk to the owner about it, because the dogs seem so out of their minds that i Just want to put distance between us. That, and Elka isn't all that appreciative of the hubbub, regardless of the inner reason.
DeleteDogs need to be treated like dogs, large and small, and need to be trained and exercised. I'm glad that Ted got you!
Aww, Elka is so good. I know one day I'll be there with Des (I got him to focus on me yesterday twice, while a cyclist passed and then a jogger--not quite there with dogs), and it's folks like you that keep me going.
ReplyDeleteDesmond can definitely be there! Any steps in focus are great, and should definitely be celebrated (which sometimes makes it more likely to repeat, because he'll be like "You know, I LIKE this party thing!)
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ReplyDeleteAlright, so think big dog ownership is comparable to small dog ownership, and a chihuahua biting at your ankles is comparable to a doberman ripping at your bones. Carry on then!
DeleteAs I replied to you above:
Delete"I don't feel it's nuts to have a baseline expectation of dog behavior. Should a dog be barking, lunging, and snarling at the end of his or her leash? No. Should a dog be permitted to run in the road, where he or she might be hit by a car? No.
With the size differentiation that you're pointing out, it ought to in fact be easier to, as owner, control the chihuahua. If one is so inclined."
Nobody's dog should be biting anybody. Of course I know a Doberman is more powerful,and more dangerous if allowed to be, than a Chihuahua. I'm no sure what else you want me to say on the topic.
If we are quoting ourselves let me pull from my first comment. "I get the double standard isn't fair when they're all dogs".
DeleteAnyway this blog makes me queasy because you are congratulating yourself that your dog is better mannered. But we must accept that not everyone "trains" their dogs. So what would you prefer... an aggressive doberman, that can maul or kill, or an aggressive chi that will break your skin until you can kick them away?
I meet about a dozen untrained small dogs a day, no joke! What do I assume? That their owners are "unfulfilled" by "unruly" dogs, and they are sad people?
Anyway I see you met one person on the street, fantasized that their toy dog had the mauling power of your doberman, and then felt like the superior trainer.
I feel like if you accepted all dog owners you would understand the "lite" people who have 5lb dogs don't give a shit if they bark at the end of their leash. But this deeply annoyed you, to the point where you had to blog about it, and you feel All Dogs Must Be Trained! ...OK, anyway, returning to the real world where there are different levels of dog ownership... what is your point?
Really I took my dog out for the last time tonight and a man with a pair of yorkies was out. They barked and lunged at my dog, as they have for the past 1 1/2 years I've lived in my apartment complex. What should I tell him? "If those were pitbulls, someone would have called the cops!!!" or "I know you tell them 'settle down kids' but you are obviously unfulfilled by your shitty out-of-control dogs!'"?
DeleteI've already said that I would not prefer aggression in a larger dog.
DeleteI get that some people don't give a shit if their dog is barking. There's a certain public complacency about barking 5 pound dogs that my little ol' blog isn't going to change. But a 5 pound dog barking in my dog's face is a problem. To date, Elka hasn't looked as though she's come anywhere near wanting to bite a dog, but some dogs will bite other dogs. I don't want that to happen to the little guy because his owner won't control him properly. Dogs get killed like that.
A 5 pound dog allowed to bark ion the end of a retractable leash in the middle of the street is going to get run over. I don't want that to happen either.
My question was" "What does having an unruly and erratic dog do to fulfill a person?"
Clearly I feel having a trained dog is important, and write about things of that nature frequently. I hear that a major reason dogs are turned into shelters every year in the U.S., and are subsequently euthanized when their time runs up, is for training issues. If you dislike the tone of this blog, I invite you to read something that makes you happier.